whotheheckami | The Euro

I think we should join theEurozone ASAP, and stop dallying. Sod the economic tests and pandering to the electorate, most of whom haven't the nous to reason about it.

Emotionally I can but agree with you. However, Realpolitik is with us and the Sun-Readers have been promised their referendum so we'll NEVER go in :@(

The sooner that the right to vote is subject to a competency test the better! ;@)

I am in two minds about Europe.
At this very moment it seems a generally good thing. But I actually found myself agreeing with Brian Sewell in the Standard recently who pointed to the history of 'empires' that got too big and tried to encompass too many cultures and that is without Turkey.

But then Gordon Brown has no plans to take us into Europe with TB as PM. He likes the idea of Europe and I think he would like to do the move when he is PM (a prospect I don't relish - he is the epitomy of all that is wrong about being a politician IMO)

A good point. I think as an economic entity, Europe is generally a good thing. There was a time when currencies provided a useful buffer between different economies, but as we move into a global economy, this is less and less true, and they simply become an annoyance for companies who have exchange rate risk, and a tool for speculators to manipulate markets. I think we will eventually reach a point where a single world currency becomes inevitable.

It also makes sense to standardise on laws relating to trade. If a manufacturer of radio equipment has to investigate radio emmision standards in 25 countries, and comply with them all individually, that is a significant drain on its resources. If all 25 countries agree on one radio emission standard, that makes it considerably easier for the manufacturer to produce one product which can be sold across the entire narket.

As a political entity, I'm not so sure. I don't think we need to create a new European empire. Someone made the point that as of next year, the EU will be the largest free trading block since the Roman empire. Having said that, I'm not sure that having only one superpower is a good thing, and there's an argument that a European superpower would keep the Americans in check.

Of course, if that theory is wrong, the cockroaches inherit the Earth...

I'm very pro-European and was convinced long ago that joining the euro makes sound economic sense. In more recent years the evolution of the US as the sole Superpower and world ~~bully~~ policeman has been deeply troubling. I would like to see Europe becoming a credible stabilising force on the worst of US excesses

Surely all politicians are the epitomy of what is wrong about being a politicain. Sadly, even the good guys seem to be ground down by the Westminster and party machines.

When was the last time that, for example Paul Boetang was allowed to speak his mind?

I missed Brain Sewell's article and will try and find it on the website. However, I can't see a "Federal" Europe evolving along the lines of any previous grouping of nations. I'm not sure what lines it will evolve along, but it won't be a United States or a Hansa League - all bets are off!

No if the vote would be yes, and yes if the vote would be no.

really, its NOT that bad, I like it actually. Jamesb

Yes, but the old coinage was costing the Irish economy millions in trouser repair bills! The Brits don't need to go into euro because we have slimmed down our coinage from its old cartwheel days ;@)

I think it's any government's perrogative to time any referendum to have the best chance of getting the result they want. And if the people feel they have been unfairly manipulated by their government, it is their perrogative not to reelect them. It may not be perfect, but that's our current political system.

Of course, since you don't have a constitution, your government can pretty much whatever the hell they want, and don't have to ask your opinion on it, if they don't want to. Can anyone remember when the last time the UK had a referrendum?

Personally I think UK entry to the Euro would be a good thing, both for Britain and Europe (as well as making life much easier for me when I visit you lot). The UK and Eurozone economies are closer to being in sync than they have been in 2-3 years, and the GBP/EUR exchange rate is at an almost sensible level.

The Euro has been an interesting experiment, and in most respects a success. How you go about adding a new currency is going to require careful thought, to avoid the sort of currency manipulation we saw in the early nineties.

Brown's tests were always highly subjective and purely political and cold be fudged to allow the Gowernment to time a decison whenever a referendum looked like it would be in favour with the Government's decision. Sadly, Dave the Sun Reader is very anti-Brussels and I have never considered a referendum have a cat's chance in hell of being in favour of joining the euro.

and the GBP/EUR exchange rate is at an almost sensible level

Ah yes, for certain values of sensible ;-)

I am interested to see how 'Europe' and the Euro fair once we add Poland and all the other Eastern European agriculural economies into the fold. As for Turkey, we can only imagine.

It will certainly be a different organisation and I do have concerns that "absorbing" the Eastern European Nations will have a similar impact on the Eurozone economy as Reunification has had on the German economy.

Mendi is probably better qualifed to talk about how the changed to the Common Agricultural Policy are likely to impact farmers within the UK, other EU countries and the new member states.

>>As for Turkey, we can only imagine
Just wait until the North African States try and join!

Europe faces tremendous challenges over the next few years and on into the rest of the century. But I fervently believe that I want my elected representatives to be part of the team meeting those challenges as opposed to the team sitting on the fringe and hurling rocks at any changes.

The integration of Eastern Europe into the EU will be a tremendous challenge, but it is also a fantastic opportunity. Wealthier states will have to do a certain amount of propping up of the poorer economies, but I don't think anyone is suggesting those countries join the Euro until they reach the point where they meet the criteria set out under the stability pact.

I think it might have been wiser to bring the new countries on board in several blocks over several years, but the sooner they are part of the union, the sooner we can begin to help them to grow their economies.

Turkey will certainly present a challenge, but that is still some way off - they are not one of the ten countrues who wil be joining next May. However, it's interesting to see how Turkey were suddenly willing to resolve their old conflict with Greece over Cyprus. We can only hope that EU enlargement will continue to give disagreeing nations the incentive to resolve their disputes.

But that could be just wishful thinking on my part.

You must come round and play Europa 2050 with us. We bought this simulation game about Europe unifying in the 100 years after the second world war and have never played it

Sounds fun. Maybe when I'm over for the Robert Rankin book launch in August.

Let us know - there's always room

Can anyone remember when the last time the UK had a referrendum?

There has only been 1 ever. 1973 on wehter we should stay in the Common Market.

I was 9.

I can not remember any other issues that have effected the whole of Britain.

However, residents of Scotland and Wales were able to participate in referendums (referenda?) for the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly.

I'm sure there will be loads in the papers today about what the 'five economic tests' actually are... but aren't they just a political device that can be claimed to have been 'failed' until it suits the politicians to join the Euro?

Haven't we already been 'preparing' for about 6 years or something?

Undoubtedly, they are political tests and were chosen with great care for maximum apparent objectivity whilst remaining totally subjective. Sadly, Tony Blair has been on the losing horse with the euro ever since he was forced by John Major's government to make a referendum on the euro a manifesto pledge. This government may have neatly side-stepped or totally avoided a number of manifesto pledges, but there was no way the press were going to let him quietly avoid a euro referendum. Consequently, I can see very little chance of Britain adopting the euro in the next 5-10 years.

And then look what Blair's done today with his 'cabinet re-shuffle'. Abolishing institutions left, right and centre. I don't know how 'democratic' government is supposed to work but this seems wrong.

I think he was absolutely on the money - and I don't think we'll ever join the Euro, either. Our economy is fundamentally aligned to the US economy and, as the respective political systems diverge, we will increasingly find that our national interest runs far more closely with that of the USA than with Europe.

Europe, in the sense of the EU, is a basket case. I'd be amazed if it survives as anything other than a Franco-German-Benelux rump until 2010. This last lot of enlargement, with lots of squabbling democrats who instinctively mistrust centralised states and planned economies (hey, they've got a reason to), will pretty much kill off the Euro superstate. I hope.

As a good Euro myself (check it, no English blood at all), I'm all for "Europe" and violently opposed to the Union, or the USE or whatever they want to call it. My heart does not leap at the sound of the "Song of Joy" and I don't want my friends and neighbours subject to a bunch of anti-democratic, unelected Brussels parasites.

Ahem. Your mileage might vary, of course.

LOL

The Euro

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Bang On

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