Phone Privicy

[whotheheckami]

I wonder if anyone can help gardenpixie out? She needs to know if she has any come back against someone (the Fiddler) who taped a private telephone conversation without her knowledge some weeks ago.

She knows that he has played the tape to one other person, but does not know if he still has the tape.

Does anyone know if she can demand that he destroys the tape?

My knowledge is only about using tapes of conversations as evidence in Police matters and in thisa case I can't advise her.

Comments

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

Interesting one (legally.)

In theory she has copyright in her oral speech as much as what she writes (so long as it has some kind of "literary" merit - which really just means in this context that it was more than a few words long and made some kind of sense) - so yes, she then controls "public performances" of the tape.

In reality though enforcing this is completely impossible, but you did ask.

The physical tape itself is his property - but she can demand that he not play it to anyone without her consent.

He has also possibly committed a criminal offence of some kind - I'm less sure on that - but the civil law is really what you want for the remedy required.

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

I know that it is a hell of a complex legal issue.

My concern is that he seems to be taping quite a few of his calls. I have no idea why or if he keeps the tapes.

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

Well, sneerpout is right that any stuff collected that way would be inadmissible in court (tho you can never be quite sure in these starnge post 9-11 days..)

If you want to scare him with threats of calling in police I could look and see if this is , as I suspect, some kind of criminal act of unauthorised interception or the like?

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

Disturbingly, he's an ex-copper and still seems to be quite well connected - but don't they all ;@)

[sneerpout.livejournal.com]

Speaking purely as a filthy journo, she has nothing to worry about.

Whatever the circumstances, conversations taped without the prior knowledge and consent of the Other Party are completely inadmissable in court or elsewhere. Anything else is hearsay, and he's technically breaking the law by playing it to other people.

[intermission]
Disloyal prick. Would you like me to pay him A Visit?
[/intermission]

Beyond this, I'm at a loss. I have had one vindictive ex, but luckily he stopped short of anything beyond the pale on this level.

Hug Pixie for me, please.

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

Your hug will be delivered with interest when I see Pixie tomorrow morning and I'm sure that a visit (with blunt (or not-so-blunt)) instruments may be on the cards.

I'd love to tell you more of the gory details, but I must be careful about what I put into an open forum.

Thanks babe.

[sneerpout.livejournal.com]

Let me know if there's anyone I can kick the crap out of anything I can do.

[ang-grrr.livejournal.com]

Having absolutely no knowledge or experience in this I offer advice that is of no value.

BUT

As far as I understand it you have to give permission to have your actions/words broadcast and if it is being played it is being broadcast and so he is breaking the law.

And its a shitty thing to do. I have a close personal friend who had their computer hacked and private chat logs broadcast in a vindictive act. I can't think of anything more disgusting than personal thoughts or conversations being publicly broadcast.

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

She is so insenced by behaviour. He played the tape to his current girlfriend (and friend of Pixie's) He's now specatularly dumped her and some interesting and indpendently verifiable information is starting to come out.

Me thinks the Fiddler has fiddled too much arouind here.

[sneerpout.livejournal.com]

I'd like to see how well he wields a bow with broken fingers, personally.

[ang-grrr.livejournal.com]

See?

Fluffy.

Like a bunny.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

General Woundwort.

(Well, no, more like Bigwig.)

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

We had thought of stealing the fiddle and sending it back to him in 1 inch cubes

[flickgc.livejournal.com]

I was under the impression that it was illegal to tape a call unless you told the other party at the start of the conversation, hence lawyers and call centres have the message before they answer.

But i may be wrong.

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

I think you have to make that statement if you later wish the tape to be used as evidence. You should also be able to provide a verified, contemperanous and identical copy to both parties.

[red-cloud.livejournal.com]

I believe that the important part of these legal disclaimers is not the fact that they are recording you (they can record you whether they tell you or not) but the use to which the conversation will be put. In most cases this is for "training purposes".

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

I *think* that is to meet data protection law. they are collecting personally identifying information (your conversation) and processing it (using it); so they have to tell you they're doing it & the purposes they;re using it for.

Gosh the law involved in this is complex isn;t it? DP, copyright, criminal and evidence - I should do an article on it.

[red-cloud.livejournal.com]

Of course, data protection. Now that is a different saucepan of anchovies, isn't it? :-)

[latexiron.livejournal.com]

Yes, but that only applies if the information is stored on a computer.

If you didn't want to be bound by that, you would stick to old fashioned tapes. Which do a far better job of standing up in court too.

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

I think recent extensions to the DPA make it clear that all record are included whatever media they are held on - including paper

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

You should - it's a minefield

[latexiron.livejournal.com]

You don't have to make an announcement if callers could reasonably expect the phone call to be recorded, and the call is admissible as evidence.

For example, the trading desks of banks and presumeably police stations don't need to make such announcements.

[red-cloud.livejournal.com]

It used to be perfectly legal to record your own conversations, whether or not the other party knew that you were doing it (I don't know if this is still true, though).

Where it gets muddy is whether playing the recording to other people constitutes fair-use. I would say that if it can be proved that the intention or use was actually malicious, then he's in trouble.

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

That's a good reading. I'll check a few things with some contacts I've just rememebered and let everyone know

Mel

[red-cloud.livejournal.com]

I believe this is why undercover police and investigative journalists, et al, don't need any legal permission to get themselves wired for sound - they are only recording their own conversations. It's only like storing copies of someone else's emails or letters that they've sent to you.

It's what use they're put to that counts, legally.

And if you want to go the whole Strangers on a Train thing, I'll cheerfully mash some fingers in Rutland for you if you'll break a few legs in Yorkshire for me.

[r0ach.livejournal.com]

Full info on recording calls here
http://www.oftel.gov.uk/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm

It's OK to record residential calls as long as they aren't made available to a 3rd party.......

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

Many, many thanks - we've got the b@st@rd!